When Friends Become Advocates: It’s Working in Omaha featuring Nicky Wik and Becky Korinek
For so many independent patient advocates, it can be a scary proposition to go it alone.
In this episode, we hear from two good friends from Omaha, Nebraska who joined
forces and combined their unique individual skills to create a rewarding, impactful, and
fun patient advocacy practice.
Nicky Wik has a long history working on the administrative side of healthcare, learning
the business of medicine and overseeing quality control for physical therapy clinics. She
was awakened to the need for advocacy when nobody followed up with her father after
he was tested following chest pains. She learned that you can never assume the
healthcare system is going to do their job. She met Becky Korinek, a teacher who was
serving lunch Nicky’s kindergartener. You’ll have to listen to the podcast to find out how
they connected.
In our discussion, Nicky and Becky describe how they started their practice, who they
serve, what they do, how they get the word out about advocacy in Omaha, and the
importance of staying connected with other advocates. Most importantly, Nicky and
Becky are in lock step when it comes to the need for effective communication with
physicians. That’s why their clients become part of the family. Establishing client trust
ensures that advocates are best able to help them inform to healthcare teams what they
should know.
Transcript
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Okay.
Host
Nikki Wik and Becky Korinek are here with me at the Patient Advocacy Now podcast. Thank you so much for being here. How are you guys doing today?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Great. Thank you so much for having us.
Host
Yeah, it's an absolute pleasure. So Nikki, your background, and I always like to kind of set the table because there's kind of two camps, right? When it comes to patient advocates, they're the people who were nurses or in healthcare for a million years, and then realize that there's a gap in the market because of their own personal story or whatever. And then there are the people who typically come to the line of work and the calling, I guess you can call it, um, because of their own personal.
a story and struggle with themselves or a family member in a health care. What's your story? How did you come to?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Right. Well, I have always been on the administrative side of health care and over the last 30 years. And my parents have complex medical histories. And so as I have managed, yeah, from both sides. Yeah. And so as I have helped people with insurance and billing questions and ran a couple of offices,
Host
So both, so you kind of come from both, both from both. Okay, got it.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
That's kind of where my administrative background is. And then as I was watching my parents go through just some really complex issues in and out of the hospitals and doctor's offices and things were just seem to be falling through the cracks. And so that's why I decided to start outreach patient advocates and go back and get my certification. And I just felt like if
things were happening to my parents and I'm walking alongside them, it's gotta be happening to so many other people and it's not really anybody's fault, right? It's not the doctors or the nurses or the healthcare team, it's just the way that the system is set up. It's just a fragmented system.
Host
Let me ask you, so when you say you worked in admin for many years, go into detail of what kind of duties that involves to kind of paint the picture. Cause I have a follow-up question, but I kind of want to understand what that looks like from your, you know, from your perspective.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Yeah. So, yeah, I worked and helped run the operations piece of a couple of physical therapy clinics here in town. And so any sort of billing questions or insurance issues from the patient's perspective, they would come in and I would usually be the one that they would talk to.
and then also facilitate communication with the regional office and then also the corporate office. So a lot of just kind of any issues in with the patients was kind of what I would deal with. And then also we would deal with the note system, the electron, we didn't really have an electronic medical record yet at that time, because this was...
Host
Sure.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
20 years ago and so we were still doing chart notes or they were transcribing their notes and so we would do some quality control on that piece of it as well. So just a lot of different aspects.
Host
So when you had that background between, you know, taking notes and customer relations or, or patient relations, I guess you can call it. What was surprising to you when you were dealing with your, um, with your own parents, medical issues where you're like, I should, I should be able to plug in, but it's still kind of difficult because there's still things that I don't know how to navigate.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Sure, yeah. Well, for example, one time my dad was having chest pains and he needed, we called his cardiologist and he had taken his nitroglycerin and we went in for an appointment. He had to get an echocardiogram and a stress test done. Well, we got the echo done, the stress test camera didn't work, so we had to go for a followup for that.
So three weeks later, we're still waiting on the results. And I thought, gosh, we usually always send our notes right over to that referring physician. I called the doctor's office, they still hadn't received, the cardiologist still hadn't received the results. And we had to track down the results from wherever they were. Now we're pushing four weeks out and he was having chest pains at the beginning of last month, ended up he needed to go in for a heart cath, right?
So, you know, a lot of it is you think that something is gonna be done. Like they say, we'll get back to you. We'll let you know the results. We'll send them over to the office. Well, somehow, those results didn't get sent over to the office. Well, who tracks those down? If I don't follow up with that, is he just going to be one of those patients that fall through the cracks?
Host
I don't know.
Host
Yeah. So interesting. And Becky, your background, you're, you are a semi retired school teacher.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Right, yep, 31 years.
Host
31 years. I always love hearing how long teachers were teachers for. And so you're still kind of in the school a couple of days a week. I take it. Yeah.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Yeah, I am. Mm-hmm. I love it.
Host
You can't really keep teachers away from the kids too long from my experience.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
No, teachers like kids. Oh, right. It's the best time to be at school is when the kids are there.
Host
So how did you and Nikki connect and kind of what do you view your role as and, and how, you know, what, what experience does working with kids kind of, if any, translate to the work you're doing now?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Well, Nikki and I met, gosh, 10 years ago. Yeah. So I was a teacher and I had lunch duty as one does. And I had kindergarten lunch duty, which involves opening a lot of go-gurts and fruit cups that explode on you and children putting three packets of ketchup on a bagel.
So kindergarten lunch duty is insane. Anyway, and her son, her oldest son was… Okay, yeah, yeah. We don't put ketchup on bagels at school, so thank you. Anyway, so yeah, her son was in my lunch duty and he was just sweet and a great kid. Well, she sent in his lunch every day, she sent a word of the day. And I thought, who is this extra mom?
Host
I'm sorry.
Host
I have a six-year-old, so I totally… Just went through it.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
chill out, you know, I don't know what all these words mean. And I don't have time to figure out what your word means. Because I've got 75 kids that I need to deal with, you know. So that's how we met. And then I taught a parenting class at the school and she and her crazy husband came. They didn't need it. But her husband and I totally hit it off. And
Then it turns out that our husbands really ended up liking each other. So we're a couple friends, which you do not find very often. But yeah, then I, didn't I send you a letter at the end of the school year? Yes. With lots of words that we did. We had to look up with the dictionary. It was pretty funny. Yes. It was great. You know, we just have a great time together. You know, we get each other. I know what she's going to say. She knows what I'm going to say.
Host
No, you don't.
Host
Payback.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
And as far as my role in the company, you know, I, uh, there are a lot of similar similarities between older people and children. You have to be patient. You have to go at their speed. You know, everybody is in such a hurry right now. And you know, for how many ever years we're in a hurry, we can't slow down. We've got a list, a to-do list, a mile long, and, um, old people and children.
just respond a lot better. If you take some time, establish that relationship, let them know that you're on their side and listen. So I have found those to be big similarities. And I really, my whole life has been spent with children. So I'm really enjoying working with an older population. And my role in the company is to shout it from the rooftops that we're here.
Everybody I meet in my life, I tell them what I do and I give them a card. And honestly, pretty much everybody I run into, I mean, unless you're like 17 years old and you have no medical history, everybody goes, oh my gosh, there's some people who do that? That is such a necessary, and then they launch into a conversation or a story about their own family and what they've been through. So
Host
I'm gonna just say
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
It is just, it's so prevalent that, you know, there are a lot of bumps in the system that people go through. Everybody has a story. And it's just my job to share our mission with people and let people know what we can do for them and really just get the word out.
Host
So since you have a lot of practice doing this, I actually think there are a bunch of advocates who listen to this show too, especially new advocates. How do you explain what you do? What's the pitch? If someone says, so what do you do? I'd love to hear, cause you probably have it down pat at this point. Oh.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Well, so I'm a patient advocate and that means that I help people navigate the medical system. For practical purposes, that means I go to doctor's appointments with clients and I take notes and I ask questions because often if you go to the doctor, you're not feeling that great and you may not be able to understand everything. I also help clients to get their medications figured out because if you're on a pill pack and the doctor tells you not to take sertraline anymore.
Maybe you don't remember which one of those pills is sertraline. So I hope you get your meds figured out and make sure that you're taking what you're supposed to be taking. I also go home from the hospital with you and make sure that you have the right services in place because there's a huge readmission rate with patients coming home from the hospital, especially at a certain age. And we just don't want to see that. We want to...
have everybody have a good health care experience. So that's where I usually start. And then I listen because at that point they're usually going, oh, well, let me tell you about. Yeah.
Host
That's such a great way. I love everything about the way you did that. So first of all, you gave the kind of the generic, I navigate the healthcare system, but then right away you realize that's not enough information. And I think what I've heard other patients, not on this podcast, but when I meet them in person, what they failed to do that you did so beautifully, and I'm sure you do it too, Nikki, is you start saying, I do this. And immediately when you said that, I started picturing, oh, Becky.
Not some mysterious figure, but Becky's going to be sitting with me in the doctor's office with the clipboard taking notes. It became so clear right as you were saying that, because you said, I do this. And then I go. And so it was really, you know, kind of well set in 40 seconds. Like, Oh, I get it. And, and there's this sense that if there's another piece of the puzzle that I don't get, Becky's going to help me or Nikki's going to help me figure that out.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Yeah, good. Like I'm glad it came across clearly.
Host
Um, so where do you typically find, are you speaking to the patients directly? How do you eventually connect with your clients and are they, uh, and are they finding you through Facebook these days or are you, because I know you guys do some Facebook live streams, right?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Yeah, we do. Yeah. Do you want to speak to that? Yeah, we can both. So first we reached out to Eastern Nebraska offices on aging. They are a great resource here in town. And so we have gotten quite a few calls from them, from clients that they have referred to us. We have also reached out to some of the foundations here, the different...
you know, the Cancer Society, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's Foundation. Um, so we've reached out to them. We go to, Becky goes to so many networking events to get the word out. We've started reaching out to elder care attorneys and, um, she'll do presentations in the community. Um, we've thought about doing like library presentations.
and maybe even partnering with an elder care attorney to talk about some of the documents and the POAs and the advanced directives and things like that. Yeah. And I just, you know, I love to talk to people. So anybody I run into, I tell them what we do. She does. You know, we were working in a coffee shop a couple of weeks ago, which, because we don't have an office. I mean, we just work, you know, from home or wherever.
and we were talking and there was this group of about six older gals next to us. And first of all, they had a baby. So I said, and it was bald with a bow. And I said, get out of here with that baby. I'm not going to get any work done, whatever. I'm just chatting them up. But then I said to Nikki, that's our demographic right there. And she goes, I know. And then a lady started talking about Medicare.
Host
I'm sorry.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
So I just jumped up and I said, I couldn't help it over here. And I gave them all of our cards, you know, and the lady ended up coming to sit with us and talking about her appeal. And I mean, we were just getting a lot of head nods, but it was pretty cool when she came over and sat with us. And, and Nikki, you know, Nikki's so generous with her time. She was like, Oh, well, I know what that code means. The code means blah, blah. And that's why they're not paying for this. And the lady's like, what?
Host
Yeah.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
just know that, you know? So any opportunity I have to talk about the business, I do, because everybody connects with it.
Host
When you, Nikki, when you said, you know what that code means, is that because of your background in the admin space or have you kind of studied up and continued learning all the codes as they change as an advocate?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Yeah, I would say it's a combination for sure. Especially here in the last few years on the advocacy piece of it, because you hear, oh, this got denied, or this Medicare patient is having an issue with this. And so we are in a group with other advocates across the country because we don't have office mates. And so we have a group, it's on Discord. And...
It's a great platform for us to say, hey, I'm having this issue, or this person's getting denied, or this medication, I can't get it pre-authorized. Do you guys have any ideas? And it's a great network of advocates that we bounce ideas off of and are able to help our clients. Somebody in Florida may have went through this and all use their idea on how to get something approved in Nebraska. So it's great that we're able to do that. But yeah, I would say,
you know, kind of a combination of my past work history and then just really in the last few years.
Host
And how much, this is for both of you, how much do you think that your job is kind of same day to day and you have this kind of core skill set versus how much you constantly are learning new things about the medical system?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
I mean, all the time we're learning new things and how to communicate differently and better with the healthcare team and with our clients. I would say there's never a same day, but it's always kind of the same sort of things with my clients, like making sure that they always have an up-to-date medication list. I am constantly talking to nurses, the pharmacists.
I have a nurse who has given me her cell phone number and said, you just call me when you have a question about this patient or text me. But I would say that it's always different, but a lot of it is communication. Yeah, yeah, it is. And I'm learning, I mean, twice as much as she is because Nikki already has this wonderful background.
where I really don't, you know, my background, as I said, is in education, but a lot of it is just communication. It is being a good listener and knowing what the client needs because yes, there's a lot of similarity, but each client is different too. And so I think, you know, my mom's 87, bless her heart, and she's in great shape, thank God. But you know, as I've become Nikki's partner in this.
You know, my mom said, I feel like I'm invisible, Becky. People don't pay attention to me. They don't ask me. They, you know, and I definitely see that. And so when we give a patient or a client all of our attention, you can kind of see them go, this is great. Yeah. They become our family. Our clients really become family to us.
Host
Yeah.
Host
Is that the trend or are there other trends you're seeing as well? But is that the typical trend that people just kind of feel invisible and they want to be heard and then they want to be understood and then someone actually to take action on it? Is that kind of the trend with a lot of your clients?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Well, I mean, I don't know if that's a trend. You know, I had a major back surgery almost two years ago, 20 months, whatever. I had a three level fusion and so titanium cage around my spine. And part of it is also like, I still have significant pain. The surgery went well. Every spine is different. It's not like we're talking about an engine in a Hyundai, right? It's my spine.
I have some scoliosis, a little rotation, whatever. So the doctor did what he was supposed to do, but here I sit, you know, and Nikki helped me navigate that. I think honestly, especially when you're dealing with a chronic illness, people get sick of hearing about it. Because there's nothing to be done for me. I am, you know, I had cupping done the other day, I have dry needling, I'm in physical therapy, I walk, you know, I take supplements. I'm probably gonna have pain for the rest of my life. And...
Honestly, my doctor is, I mean, he's a great guy. He did a super job. He's very well-respected surgeon, but you know, he was the last time I saw him when I did something to a disc after the surgery. He was just looking at me like.
Sorry, you know, it's obviously too early to go back in and I wouldn't want to go back in. But I think that's part of it too. I mean, there's the whole getting old part and all of that you have to navigate because when one thing goes wrong, very often another thing goes wrong. And then there's the chronic illness part. I'm only 55, I should not be having to deal with all this pain, but here we are. You know, and so the chronic pain I think is another category.
Host
Yeah.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
and someone with Parkinson's. I mean, there's only so much you can do. And so I think physicians get exhausted hearing about it. There's, they don't know what else to do. And I think, I think also patients sometimes don't, don't know what the next step is, or they don't know how to communicate their symptoms or what's been going on in their life to their physician. And so that's another piece.
Host
Right, especially in the 10 minutes that they might have with them where they get flustered and all that stuff.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Exactly, yes. Or they'll forget to mention a symptom that could be really important to diagnose them with something. And they may walk out of that office going, oh, I should have told them about I was having GI issues too, and forgot to tell them because they are rushed and they only have a certain amount of time. And so that's where we also come in and can help kind of organize that and really get to the heart of what's going on. We help them track their symptoms.
so they can have some detailed information to bring into the doctor. Another thing is, is their social history. You know, if they've been through a divorce or they've lost their job, their doctor wants to know that, but they may not know whether or not to ask the patient that or not, and the patient may not feel comfortable telling the doctor that. And so that's where we really get to know the clients and help bring that information in to the.
Host
explain why a doctor might want to know if somebody's gotten divorced. Cause a lot of people listening to this are like, why is that relevant to my back pain?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
It's.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Yeah, well, if they're having headaches and they're struggling with work and they are, you know, they're depressed. Not sleeping. The doctor is gonna wanna know if there are other things going on in their life and maybe they need to see a counselor. But they may not even tell the patient to go see somebody if they don't know everything that's going on.
It just helps all of the people. Yeah.
Host
to get the whole picture. For sure. How much of your work would you say is with the patient at the hospital in their home versus, you know, doing things remotely or doing things on their behalf when they're not around?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
That's a great question. Some days I feel like I'm on the phone with, you know, doctor's offices or insurance companies, and I'm doing a lot of background things that the patient probably doesn't even know I'm doing. There's a lot of that goes on. And then, you know, a lot of it too is spending with the patient or being at the hospital bedside.
I don't know if I could give you a percentage of, it's very different from day to day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Host
It's a mix.
Host
What would you say, you guys talked about communication, where do you see people, especially patients or their loved ones go wrong when it comes to talking to doctors or nurses or even hospital admin?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
I think sometimes people forget that they have 10 minutes and they will get stuck on one thing and they'll go on and on and on about this one thing. And they need to know that they need to use that time wisely. They've got 10 or 15 minutes. And so that's why we create something to bring in kind of as a guide.
to go off of. So we make sure that all of those symptoms get talked about or everything that they have going on or at least the main pieces get talked about. But that's kind of what I see. What would you say? Yeah. And I think, I mean, it sounds simple, not knowing the medications you're on. And you know, having and hawing and forgetting about a major medication that, I mean, my doctor just took me off one medication.
because I have bad reflux and that was really hindering my reflux. So if I'm not clear about every medication that I'm taking, and that's why we do a complete medication list, which nurses are just jumping for joy when we come in with that because the patient doesn't even really have to be involved. We just know the information. So I think, yeah, to just echo what Nikki said, just really using the time that you have very wisely.
Host
Mm-hmm.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
as objective as you can about what's going on. And I would add to that about the medications. A lot of times the clients or the patients may not even know why they're taking a medication. They know that they're on 18 medications, but they don't know why they're taking them. And so that's the other reason we create that list is for them to go, okay, I take this one for my thyroid.
Host
Got it. I love it. So go ahead. Go ahead.
Host
Mm-hmm
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
and I take this one for my cardiac. So I think it's important that we try and inform the client and the patient and help educate them along the way.
Host
Yeah, absolutely. I think and that education piece is something we hear quite often, especially because doctors and nurses just don't have the time to do it in an appropriate fashion. So you guys step in as an advocate and then you're there saying, okay, do you understand? And you kind of get the confirmation. You walk through it nice and slow at their speed because you don't have that pressure of going to six more patients that hour. Yeah.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Right.
Yeah.
Host
Well, that's beautiful.
Host
How would you say the best way for someone to reach out and connect with you two would be? Is it through your Facebook? Is there another way for them if they're in the Nebraska area? I guess another question for you. Do you work only in your area or are you doing services remotely?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
We are mainly in the Omaha area right now. We have not done any remote work. You know, we would be open to it. We really like to have that face-to-face time with our clients and get to know them and, you know, just, and find out, go to the doctor with them. And people can do it remotely. And it's great. I mean, that's one of the great things that came out of COVID, but...
Host
Gotcha.
Host
Sure.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
We really like to have that interaction with those clients.
Host
I'm sure that's refreshing for a lot of people to hear because there are so many remote services, but someone's sitting, no, I want to be there with you. I want to have the FaceTime is probably music to a lot of people. Yours. Sure.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Yeah. And as far as contact, we have a website that maybe we could link in the show notes or something. Outreach Patient Advocates? Okay. Yeah. So it's Outreach Patient Advocates. And then, right. And our contact information is there. You can certainly also message us on Facebook.
Host
Why don't you say it out? Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes, but let's at least for the people listening, who might be in the car.
Outreachpatientadvocate.com.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
And yeah, Instagram, we are on Instagram and Facebook and greater national advocates were listed in the directory. And through the Eastern Nebraska's office on aging, if they're local, but they would just refer to us. So yeah, we would love to help more clients and spread the word about what we're doing.
Host
Wonderful.
Host
If you had one piece of advice for someone who might be struggling in the medical system and they, and they aren't local to you. So they're kind of on their own. What would be that piece of advice for you?
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
I would say go with your gut, ask questions, and just get as much information and education as you possibly can if you're on your own. And I would say that if there are no patient advocates in your area or you can't afford one, take somebody else with you to the doctor.
because another set of ears is really invaluable and that can give you better results if you can then kind of go over what happened at the doctor with your friend, your sister, whatever.
Host
Great advice on both fronts. Nikki and Becky, thank you so much for being here.
Nicky Wik & Becky Korinek
Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having us.
