How Spiritual Enlightenment Led to Independent Patient Advocacy, Featuring Deidra Kindred

This highly personal conversation reveals how Deidra was inspired by GOD to help others understand their personal medical journeys and how to collaborate with their healthcare team. That spiritual inspiration led Deidra to begin a patient advocacy business, Your Healthcare Nurse Advocates. Her team of specialty nurses are all certified patient advocates who serve as the patient’s trusted advisor, empowering and educating them on how to take control of their healthcare choices. 

As a nurse for 20 years, Deidra witnessed firsthand the many obstacles patients face when trying to receive their treatments. From working in the intensive care unit to specialty home health settings- often with immunocompromised patients on infusion treatments- she recognized a large gap in today’s healthcare system. “Hospital administration is not exactly geared toward the experience of the patient who’s trying to navigate the healthcare system,” Deidra explains. 

Deidra always felt that the healthcare system can be an intimidating world for those who are not healthcare professionals. She says the commonly used phrase, “we treat you, then we street you” sums up this problem: healthcare providers often treat patients, then send them back to their caregivers and families with a quick recap of what happened during their hospital stay, and discharge instructions that are often lengthy and complex.

Transcript

Host

Diedra Kindred, thank you so much for being here. How you doing today?

Deidra Kindred

great, great.

Host

Wonderful. So you are an RN, you're a nurse advocate, and you've been at it for a bit of time, and you have quite a bit of experience in time and years behind you as in the nursing and the healthcare field in general, just so that everybody can kind of get a chance at understanding your background. Why don't you kind of walk us through that history and how you came to being an advocate.

Deidra Kindred

Oh my goodness, so that's a long, drawn out story, but I'll try to be brief. So, goodness, I don't even know where to start. So when I graduated high school, I thought I was gonna be a CPA.

I wanted to go to school and get my CPA certification because I would watch my mom do her thing in her career. And I went to school, was studying to be a CPA, and it was boring. Very boring. I have to be honest. No. So, um.

Host

So you didn't want to be an accountant anymore.

Deidra Kindred

What ended up happening is that I started partying a lot, ended up having a son, and that's when was my wake up call about, okay, you gotta be an adult now. You have a child, you gotta provide a future for him. So I said, okay, well, I go to school for kink theology. So I was working, single parent, going to school, studying for that. And-

And one time during the kinesiology journey, they were saying that you had to volunteer to see if you really wanted to be a physical therapist. So I was volunteering at a rehab center, and one of the clients at the rehab center said, hey, you look like a great nurse. You got gentle hands. I'm like, I'm not going to be no stinking nurse. I'm 23. I know everything, right?

Deidra Kindred

going along my little journey six months later a different client says to me oh you explained that those discharge instructions so well you'd make a great nurse I am not gonna be no stinkin nurse I'm gonna be a physical therapist don't have time for that I'm not the type that go around and follow doctors around and you know wait for them to tell me what to do so final call was I was sitting at

bit of a lag there. I was sitting at home and I was writing a paper. I put my son down for bed and it was about 8 o'clock at night and I get a phone call from a gentleman. He said this is Governor Jackson with Texas Women's University and I was wondering if you would consider changing your major from kinesiology to nursing. He will give you a scholarship to go to nursing school.

Deidra Kindred

to you and have it in my office in the morning. I'm gonna send you to nursing school. So, final wake up call. Ha ha.

Host

So that's like the third knock on the door, that's divine intervention kind of telling you, hey, wake up.

Deidra Kindred

I absolutely believe it. I believe that I was ordained and sent by God to be a nurse. It was definitely a calling. It wasn't something I woke up and wanted to do. So went to nursing school, graduated.

Summa Cum Laude or one of those cum laude's, and ended up working at a hospital that they had a wonderful nursing internship program. So went through that program, automatically went into critical care. So I got about 25 years as CBICU, MICU, SICU, anything for adults. But during that journey, I still always felt that there was something missing.

Host

Hahaha

Deidra Kindred

some type of way that I should be helping people more. Now granted, nurses are awesome, but I just felt like it was something missing. We weren't really helping people understand their medical journey. So put that to the side. In the meantime, at the age of 52, my mother started showing symptoms of MS and Parkinson's.

Now with me being fully cardiac nurse, I used to joke and say I am heart, lungs, and kidneys. That's what I know for adults. I could do ventilators, CRRT machines, that type of thing, help you recover from bypass surgery with my eyes closed.

When it came to my mom showing these symptoms of MS in Parkinson's, I had to go back and I had to kind of like, okay, let me refresh on neurological disease processes. Not only that, I had to beg, borrow, plead with my boss to get off of work so I could take my mom to the doctors.

So she ended up having three, no, five. She ended up having five physicians. So they did diagnose her with Parkinson's. They diagnosed her with MS. She had already had asthma where she had to go and get allergy injections during seasonal changes here in Texas. So she ended up having five physicians.

every month. So she had to go get that with injection. Then because of the Parkinson's slash MS, she started developing some swallow difficulty. So that added a GI specialist. So she had a neurologist, a pulmonologist, a GI specialist, an oncologist because she also had colon cancer and she had a primary care physician. So navigating with those five physicians who didn't have time to talk with her, didn't have time to sit with her and say, hey,

Host

Yeah.

Host

Oh well.

Deidra Kindred

This is how your disease process is intertwined. I needed to be at those doctor's visits with her. And so when I would go to my supervisor to ask to get time off to go to those doctor's visits, it was like pulling teeth from a grizzly bear. That made me so angry.

Host

that you couldn't get time off.

Deidra Kindred

Here's the hair.

that I couldn't get time off, because it was always an excuse. So we don't have a nurse that does balloon pumps. So we don't have a nurse that, you know, is qualified to do open heart surgery recovery. We don't have this, we don't have that. But I have one mom, you have several nurses, but the hospital's refusal, and that's another sticky bucket, they don't wanna train all the nurses in the same manner on the floor. So it gets to be very frustrating. I was training nurses, I was orientating nurses.

Host

Right.

Deidra Kindred

I was on hospital organization committees. I was on hypothermia committees. So all that to say, I felt like the hospital wasn't there for me and my mom when it should have been. So it made me say to myself, what if I was a lay person? What if I had no clue about medicine and my loved one needed to go to the doctor and I couldn't get off work so I could be there with him? Who's helping those people?

Host

Right.

Deidra Kindred

So fast forward a few years later, after a couple other businesses I've had, I was talking to another person, accountability partner, so to speak. I said, it would be a great idea if I could start a business, if I could say I can go to the doctor's visits with people. Really help them understand because medications and doctor's visits are where the magic happens.

And my friend said, you ought to do that. You ought to get in this business plan competition and you ought to pitch your business idea. And I was like, I'm not doing that. You know, just kind of pushing it off and putting it back. Well, finally I pitched in the Fort Worth startup weekend competition. I won third place.

Host

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Deidra Kindred

I was the only business that really launched. So that gave me fire underneath my belt to say, you know what, this is something great. Then that made me research it even more. And I ended up finding about other organizations such as Health Advocate X, the Alliance of Professional Health Advocates, Greater National Advocates. I was like, wow, there are resources out here for people who want to help by being an advocate for the public. So.

Host

Oh, wow.

Deidra Kindred

Bless you!

Host

Excuse me. I'm gonna mark that. Get out, get rid of my clip. Little sneeze. So there are resources. Yeah, there are, there are resources. And it's funny that even as a nurse and a nurse with decades of experience, you still didn't know that there were resources out there.

Deidra Kindred

No, no, because here we go with the hospital health care system. They want you all to themselves.

And then they limit you by the resources that they have available. So as an advocate in the hospital, you are an advocate for the hospital. They're gonna give you the resources that they will allow you to talk about. And then they're gonna give you a certain time limit that you can talk to the patients because always we're not helping these people learn what's next.

Host

So what, so.

Host

Right, right. Yeah, I think there's a big difference that people need to realize that an independent advocate is vastly different than an advocate the hospital might assign you. If you were talking to a lay person who has no experience or understanding of the healthcare system, how would you explain the difference between a hospital advocate and an independent advocate?

Deidra Kindred

fast.

Deidra Kindred

Okay, great question. So an independent advocate will work under their scope of practice. So as a nurse, there's a certain scope of practice that I can help you with. I can help you with.

disease processes, how they intertwine, medications, navigating what's next. A hospital advocate comes to work in the morning, they get a list of who's on the floor, and that's the list they have to go by. Not only that, I'm gonna say it, their goal is to get you discharged as quickly as possible.

It's not about, okay, what's going to happen three months down the line. They don't care. You're not their patient three months down the line. They don't care about you can't get to your visit because you have a special needs child that needs to be cared for and you can't leave the home. They don't care about that. The hospital's goal is to treat you and street you. So as an advocate, you come in and.

Host

So what do they come, so what's the, obviously they don't say that when they walk through the door and talk to a patient, what's the story they're giving to the patient?

Deidra Kindred

You know, lots of stories, they will say that they're going to sign you or give you a clinical coordinator or a social worker or a discharge planner because discharge starts at the beginning you step foot through the door. Many people don't know that. So the whole goal is to get you through all the things that you need to go through at the hospital and get you out the door so they can take care of the next client.

Host

Okay.

Deidra Kindred

So that would be the difference. We work with a lot of hospital coordinators, social workers, the people that are in the hospital. Our goal is to collaborate.

not overtake. Our goal is to get in there, learn who your discharge coordinator is, and help them get you out of the hospital as speedy as possible. But also, we will make plans with you and for you post discharge. Because now you've got to see all of your physicians. Now you've got to go to all these doctor's appointments. The hospital coordinator, discharge person, does not have the time to do that, let alone going to those visits with you,

visits helping you understand and develop a plan of care that's going to conducive for you and your entire family.

Host

So what do you do as an independent advocate in terms of preparing yourself and your patient when you do go into all those different visits? Do you prepare a binder? Do you educate the client? What's kind of the methods that you use just so you can introduce some of that to people who might be listening?

Deidra Kindred

Oh, that's a wonderful question. So what I love to do is because our services are private pay. So.

It can get fit. The waters can get very muddy when you got more than three physicians, especially if they're not in the same system. Sometimes even if they're in the same system, these positions are overwhelmed. They got a lot to carry on their shoulders. So as an independent advocate, what I do for my clients is we start from the beginning finding out who all your physicians are, helping you coordinate a calendar so you can still have a life in addition to the

Host

Yeah.

Deidra Kindred

record of that because there are patient portals but all patient portals are not created equal. What if you change insurance in September, October through January?

Host

Mm-hmm.

Deidra Kindred

What if you move? What if your physician passes away? So who's keeping track of all those records? So we teach people how to build and organize their own individualized medical binders, where it kind of combines everything pertaining to your healthcare, whether it be your last discussion with your physician, whether it be your last medication, your last procedure, whatever it is pertaining to that, your healthcare journey, we put that in that binder for you and help you keep up with that.

If you have a care partner, that person can come and say, oh, John can't speak for himself right now. I have no idea what's going on. Let's go to his binder and find out if I can help out some way. If I can take the medication list to the hospital or the rehab center or whatever it is. So with my company, we guide you through the entire journey. It's not something that we say, oh, okay, well.

We solve that problem, it always leads to another problem unfortunately. And then sometimes you are stable, we can put you on archive, when life happens, we already know you, we've already imported you, and we already can help you organize and keep on track.

Host

So it makes sense of the hospital and the healthcare system and kind of gives people the agency to know how to manage their own or in part, you know, with you, with you by their side, how to manage their own healthcare process. Would you feel like that's an accurate statement?

Deidra Kindred

Yes, I think it's a very accurate statement. I think that we consider ourselves, like when you think about business consultants, we're overall healthcare consultants.

Host

Mm-hmm.

Deidra Kindred

So we tell you what's next. So lots of my clients, I can say, let me prepare you because six months down the line, we may be looking at hospice companies. So let's start looking now and taking notes about who we like and who's a good fit. Or maybe you need someone to come into your home and be a care attendant. Well, let us help you interview some companies and see what care attendant company is right for you. If you're not satisfied with something that your healthcare provider is doing.

Well, let's investigate that, see if we can come to a consensus about you understanding your goals, do they line up with the healthcare provider's goals, and if they don't, well, we need to have a little meeting, get everybody on the same page, and then if we can't, then we have solutions and we have resources. So we love to fill in those gaps. Lots of times I like to say, you don't know what you don't know, until somebody else comes in and says, oh, you know what?

Host

Right.

Deidra Kindred

a home health company. Or it might be good to start looking for a new provider to come in and clean your home or sit with your parent or whatever it is that we can help with.

Host

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. When do you feel like the ideal time to get an advocate involved would be? I know there's a kind of a pervasive idea in the industry that oftentimes advocates are called pretty late in the game and we'd like to kind of see it happen a bit earlier, is that right?

Deidra Kindred

Yes, absolutely, because to me, my company, we don't do emergency phone calls unless you're already on boarded as a client. So what I would like to say, if you have more than three physicians, you need an advocate. If you have a chronic illness, you need an advocate. If you have a full-time job and you're trying to navigate all that for you or your loved one, you need an advocate. If you're confused about a new diagnosis, you need an advocate.

Host

Uh-huh.

Deidra Kindred

I say the best time to get an advocate is by physician number two.

Host

Okay, that's a really great rule of thumb. Nobody else has kind of put it in such clear terms before. If you have two physicians, that's the time to start thinking of getting an adipose. If you have three, time to pick up the phone.

Deidra Kindred

I really do. Yes, yes, and don't wait till an emergency happens.

Yeah, don't wait to because I know I was talking with another friend. She said it's not an issue to us an issue. Well, then you're scrambling and you're trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together and you may forget something. If you onboard an advocate at that diagnosis of a chronic illness or onboard an advocate at that time, you're getting ready to onboard physician number two or three, do it now because it's better to be able to plan ahead than to be like, oh my gosh, so I don't know where to go.

Host

Yeah.

Host

Yeah.

Deidra Kindred

do the physicians aren't helping me. Well they don't have the time you know so it's best to gather that information while the storm is before the storm hits.

Host

Brain. Brain.

Host

Makes perfect sense to me. Makes perfect sense. Let's go back to you a little bit. So I know it sounds like a lot of the struggles that you had with scheduling and your mom was a huge inspiration to kind of changing fields. Is that the main reason why you became an advocate or looked into leaving the nursing field or was there other stuff? No.

Deidra Kindred

No No Let's see, I'm trying to put this nicely

Host

Well, you could be as unfiltered as you want, you know.

Deidra Kindred

No, you don't want me to be that unfiltered. I feel like nurses are so bullied.

taken advantage of, talk to in a way that...

Deidra Kindred

I left nursing in the hospital and I'd miss it tremendously if it wasn't for the politics. Upper management, they have a certain idea that's followed by the dollar sign, whereas lots of nurses, we really want you to succeed.

health, body, mind, spirit, it all goes together. I feel like nurses are so put down, they're so run down, they're so, and when people talk about a nursing shortage, it really burns my bucket, because I don't think there's a nursing shortage. I think there's a shortage of nurses who want to work for the system.

Host

So there's plenty of people who want to help and want to help people and feel that calling, but the structure of the way it is currently is just not conducive to cater to those types of people. So we are saying.

Deidra Kindred

Yeah, I mean, why would, yeah, so many nurses, I mean, I get phone calls, text messages, emails, every single day about a position. And it irritates me, John, because some of these people who are cocklings, they've never been in the hospital at the bedside before. They have no clue what it's like. So I'm an advocate for the nurses who are at the bedside. I'm an advocate for those.

housekeeping. I'm an advocate for anybody that's working in the hospital that is run down and taking advantage of and it's just it's bad. If they would have treated nurses in a better way around years ago they probably wouldn't have this problem. Now there are, I will say on another side of that coin that there is

Deidra Kindred

a shortage of nurses who are retiring out of the field. So now they're trying to recruit nurses in the schools and things like that. But at the same token, it's the culture. It needs to start with the culture within the system. If they could change that culture within the system of making nurses feel appreciated, respected, needed, instead of making nurses feel like they're a dime a dozen.

or nurses and nurses and nurse, I do not believe that philosophy. Nurses are trained in different realms just like physicians are. And the system has to change and the culture needs to change in order for the kid more nurses to want to go into the system.

Host

Do you see it getting worse with time or is it getting worse?

Deidra Kindred

Yep, yep, yep, yep, absolutely, absolutely. Because...

Whenever one of my clients goes into a rehab or the hospital or the doctor's office, my main goal is to help that nurse who is taking care of my client have a better day as well. If that nurse feels, oh my goodness, it's just, I don't know, we have a way of talking with one another. It's just like the human aspect. Hey, how was your day? How many client patients do you have today?

Host

How do you do that?

Deidra Kindred

Is there something that I can do to help you with my client while I'm here? You know, just making that talk about appreciation. You know, I appreciate what you do. I've been on the other side. I know what it's like. If there's anything I can do to help you, or thank you, you're doing a great job, or I really appreciate your knowledge and your expertise, can you help me with… Whatever it is that, for all the staff there, you know, people wonder why...

People don't wanna go to nursing school, it's a reason.

Host

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, and you know what, what I hear in that too is learning to navigate the healthcare system like that also makes you more welcomed in the, in the healthcare system. And so you probably have no problem getting into the hospitals you work because they love seeing you that you're the one who really you make their job easier. It sounds like

Deidra Kindred

I don't know about that. You know the problem. Well, yes, but the problem is is that independent patient advocates are not as well known as hospital advocates or advocates who are employed by the system. So sometimes I get that look as, what are you doing here? Why are you here? We're doing our job right. You know, it's already that confrontational.

Host

Mm-hmm.

Deidra Kindred

wall or barrier that I have to get over to let them know that I'm not here to take your job. I'm here to make my client's life easier and wouldn't it be much easier if we get along and collaborate than getting this confrontational thing.

Host

sure.

Host

Mm-hmm. So you probably have a little mini speech like that prepared, tucked up your sleeve, ready to go if it ever comes up. Ha ha.

Deidra Kindred

Yes, and it has. So it's just, and it's also educating these other healthcare providers too, because once they find out what an independent patient advocate can do and be an extension of their already busy schedule. Like true story, I had a client that was in the hospital and her daughter was not at her home at the time she was in the hospital. So they had to leave things in disarray.

Host

Mm-hmm.

Deidra Kindred

Well, I was able to get that client's key, go back to the home, get things that she needed and bring them back up to the hospital like insurance card, things like that, that they needed to have. And the social workers in there were very grateful that I was able to do that because they can do that. And then another way we can work with other people, I tell people we can work with anybody in the healthcare system. So when I have a client that's at an assisted living or a rehab center.

Host

Yeah. Yeah.

Host

Right.

Deidra Kindred

Being able to help them be part of that care plan process to get them home or wherever the transition of care is gonna go, without balls being dropped, medications being forgotten, things being duplicate, whatever it is, being able to be part of that team is very beneficial for the clients we serve.

Host

Mm-hmm. I think you also brought up a really good point there that you know, you have the ability to go into the home, which hospitals obviously can't do. And you know, home visits is probably something that you can, that you can do when someone's after their discharge in their recovery and you, and you get them through that phase.

Deidra Kindred

Yeah. Yeah.

Deidra Kindred

Absolutely, absolutely. So yeah, absolutely. So I tell people, it just depends on the client where they're at. So some of my clients, I do home wellness visits and that's just going in to check in just to make sure everything's is going okay. When are your next visits? Helping them get that aligned up or is there a resource gap that you need filled? Helping them get that aligned up.

I love home visits, I love in person. Now I know a lot of advocates do things online, but 90% of my clients are at that age, they don't want to deal with patient portals. They don't want to deal with Zoom calls. They don't want to deal with online. They like that face to face in person. And if it's nothing but me going by and saying, hello, here's some cookies, you know, or how are you doing or whatever it is, they want that.

Host

Right.

Deidra Kindred

They need that personalization. They need that interaction, that social interaction.

Host

that sense that they're cared for. Sure.

Deidra Kindred

Right.

Host

Well, what do you see as the vision for the industry? It's an emerging field still. You know, where are the challenges? You know, where are the room for improvement? Where would you like to see things go?

Deidra Kindred

Oh, I would like to see independent patient advocates, the industry of that, be a household name. A household name. I would like to see a world where independent patient advocates and hospital advocates or rehab advocates or doctors advocates, whichever, we all are collaborating to make the world a better place and get the people access to these resources that they need. I would like to see...

independent patient advocates be able to work with physician groups and hospital groups and things like that instead of you going to the hospital you're on that unit you're just another number for that hospital advocate to see today.

Host

Yeah.

Deidra Kindred

We love getting to know our clients, body, mind, spirit, socially, all that goes into healthcare. And this has awakened my belief in nursing again, because I feel like I'm doing real nursing here, out here in the world, instead of being under a system that's basically, you gotta do it this way, it's a ceiling. It's only so much you can do to help people out. You gotta go on to the next one. Too bad, so sad.

You got other ones that are waiting to be taken care of. Well, my clients, they know that I care. We're gonna be there. We're gonna listen. We're gonna educate. We're gonna empower.

Host

Beautiful, beautiful. What's the challenge on collaborating right now? You mentioned collaboration. That comes up quite a bit, yeah.

Deidra Kindred

Whoo, yes, yes, attitudes. Attitudes. I don't know where it stems from. I don't know where it's, but the culture within healthcare is such a bullying system. It's like who has the biggest ruler? You know, it's just, it's all about, oh.

Host

Yeah.

Deidra Kindred

Well, I'm smarter than you because I'm physician XYZ or you're just a CNA or you're just a Housekeeper, I disagree with that and also I think a lot of Hurdles come through physicians or health care providers themselves not listening to the family members who are with that client every day all day and then you want to come in as a nurse or

physical therapist, occupant, we'll fill in the blank, just HCP and tell them how it should be without telling, helping them to get to how it should be. Do you understand what I'm saying? You know, you're dictating, oh, you need to do this, this, and this, but, and I'll be back in, or I'll see you back in a few weeks, and you know, I expect all these things to be done. What about helping people get to that place? That's what independent patient advocates can do for you.

Host

Yeah, yeah.

Host

Yeah, absolutely. Well, if someone is inspired and wants to reach out and work with you directly, what's the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Deidra Kindred

Oh, I got several ways. Um, they can contact me directly via phone to schedule a 30 minute phone consultation. That number is 817-854-3240 or you can go to my website which is www.yourhealthcarenerceadvocates.com. We have several classes on there that we like to promote to educate the community. Or you can email me.

at Deidra, D-E-I-D-R-A, at your nurse advocates dot gov. Put an S on advocates.

Host

Yeah, lots of lots of lots of ways. I love that you have some also some free educational resources out there to try and get people up to speed. That's it shows how much you're dedicated to the cause. Deidre Kindred, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom and your story. Is there any last kind of parting words that you have for people before we sign off?

Deidra Kindred

Not that I can think of. I mean, I love independent patient advocates. I love the industry. You do not have to be a nurse to be an advocate. I say if you're searching for an advocate, really research that advocate, see what their background is, see what their experience is, because you know all advocates are not the same. There are advocates that do medical navigation,

Deidra Kindred

There are advocates who help you fight appeals. There are advocates that are nurses that we all have different backgrounds. So don't be scared or frightened to reach out to an advocate. Maybe that advocate may not be the right one for you. Then maybe they can get you to another advocate that can help. So we're a team.

Host

Mm-hmm.

Host

Yeah.

I think that's a great point, you know, like looking into someone's background. I mean, you have extensive background in cardiovascular as an example. So if someone's dealing with that issue, you are like the gold standard of what to be looking for in a nurse advocate. And you have other obviously areas of specialties, specialty areas as well. So it's a great piece of advice. And I think you're right. If you're most of the advocates I've spoken to in this process, if they're not the right

Host

shy to refer out. I mean there's that idea that people tend to become advocates because they want to help. So if they know how to help even if it means not working with them, they're more than happy to reach across the aisle and make an introduction.

Deidra Kindred

Yeah.

Deidra Kindred

Absolutely, absolutely, because I just feel like in this industry particularly, I feel so inspired. I feel like

These people that are meeting these advocates, they want to help, whichever way they can. Unfortunately right now, most of the advocates are private paid, so there are those out there who may not be able to afford an advocate, but don't let that stop you, because there are things that advocates such as myself are creating programs that are affordable.

Host

Mm-hmm.

Deidra Kindred

It starts with you and don't be scared to reach out to and have a kid any day, any time.

Host

Thank you so much. Well said. Thank you so much, Deidre.

Deidra Kindred

Thank you.